Camping Merit Badge- 20 Nights Needed

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Postby mhjacobson » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:33 pm

Look at July 12 post from Scoutaholic, he quotes the national BSA policy regarding MBC.

In the BSA tours and expeditions manual it states: ". . .only leaders who are well trained in camping . . .should consider the responsibilities connected with a tour" (Pg. 13)

National Policy states that only leaders who can provide "Qualified Supervision" should provide leadership for an activity, and the Boy Scout Leadership training guide (p.16) states "A Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster is considered to by training after completing . . . and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills."

The Course Syllabus for Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills (p.5) states: "The skills sessions presented in Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills closely follow the Boy Scout Handbook. . .By using these skills sessions in conjunction with the Boy Scout Handbook, trainers can be sure new leaders are proficient in the basic outdoor leader skills through First Class Rank.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:56 pm

the Key word there is "should" instead of "Must" "Should" give everyone a way out. BSA is very good at this.
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:10 pm

Thanks, but I still don't see the imperative.

The referenced MBC policy refers to being qualified and registered, but not attending the training.

The other refers to "qualified supervision" and as Wagionvigil points out uses weasel words (should instead of must). Looks like the policy leaves a way out.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for training and spend a fair amount of my time teaching a variety of the courses (including IOLS). I just don't see that the policy requires it. Maybe it should, but I don't see it.

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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:04 pm

Until the policies say MUST there is always a way out.
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Postby evmori » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:38 pm

There are lots of shoulds & mays & the like when must would make it clear.
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Postby bluenote » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:59 pm

Another question I have is when does the 20 day requirement start? Does the scout need to have a SM signed sheet to start working on the MB before they can begin counting the days, or can they count any overnight camps since they've joined the troop?
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Postby evmori » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:52 am

bluenote wrote:Another question I have is when does the 20 day requirement start? Does the scout need to have a SM signed sheet to start working on the MB before they can begin counting the days, or can they count any overnight camps since they've joined the troop?


It's up to the MB counselor.
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Postby WeeWillie » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:05 am

This is an example of why National needs to re-institute merit badge prerequisites. Too much is left to the discretion of the SM & Merit Badge Counselor. This should be a must be 1st Class before starting the merit badge. That was the prerequisite when I was a Scout.

When I have been asked "does family camping count" I say sure, show me the Patrol (Family) Duty Roster, Menu, Activity Plan, how to get there... I haven't had any takers.
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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:53 am

At least we have camping as a requirement. Some of us remember when camping was all most eliminated as required. Should we have two sets of requirements? One for Urban scouts and one for Rural Scouts. :twisted: That is why the requirements are vague.
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Postby WeeWillie » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:55 am

I was changing uniforms from BSA to USA at the time when the requirements changed to make Scouting more relevant. I recall the Battle Cry was "You can't take the OUT out of SCOUTING." I'm not sure we have fully recovered from that experience. For one, Scout enroillment dropped significantly. The council I was, now Teddy Roosevelt L.I., lost so many scouts it closed one of its summer camps.
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Postby WeeWillie » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:58 am

I should mention, the summer camp that closed is now back in operation. Onteora Scout Reservation. This year it celebrated its 50th Aniversary as a Scout Camp.
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Postby Fünfte Adler » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:04 pm

bluenote wrote:
Another question I have is when does the 20 day requirement start? Does the scout need to have a SM signed sheet to start working on the MB before they can begin counting the days, or can they count any overnight camps since they've joined the troop?


According to a letter our Troop received from the National Director of Advancement, Terry Lawson, it states, and I quote, "A boy can count days and nights once he joins a troop so he does not have to get a merit badge application and count only days subsequent to that point in time."
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Postby ASM-142 » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:50 am

Fünfte Adler wrote:bluenote wrote:
Another question I have is when does the 20 day requirement start? Does the scout need to have a SM signed sheet to start working on the MB before they can begin counting the days, or can they count any overnight camps since they've joined the troop?


According to a letter our Troop received from the National Director of Advancement, Terry Lawson, it states, and I quote, "A boy can count days and nights once he joins a troop so he does not have to get a merit badge application and count only days subsequent to that point in time."


This is the way I always counted the nights.
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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