Citizenship in the Nation - visiting historic sites

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Citizenship in the Nation - visiting historic sites

Postby EagleDan » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:03 pm

Can visiting the State Capitol building count as a National Registered Historic PLace for Requirment 2 of Cit. in the Nation MB?

Our Capitol in Ohio is registered and we are planning on visiting it in December. I would expect most state captiols are registered for that matter.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:22 pm

As in many cases that would be up to the Counselor
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Official

Postby riverwalk » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:25 pm

If it's actually in their registry, then it should. But yes, ask the Counselor.
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Postby jr56 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:23 pm

The decision on that would be up to the Merit Badge counselor.
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Postby ASM-142 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:02 pm

If the place that you are to visit is listed as a National Historic Landmark or is on the National Register of Historic Places then the requirement would be meet.

The decision of the place to visit is the scouts and not the MBC. The MBC can not state that a "listed" site is not acceptable.
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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Postby EagleDan » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:02 pm

I need to clarify something, I was wondering if visiting a state capitol can count for both a registered historic place and a capitol building visit.

I also am the merit badge counselor, so telling me to ask the MBC doesn't help much.

I was wondering what other MBCs thought about my question.

For the most part, you have answered my question.

Thanks.
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Postby FrankJ » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:31 pm

Since requirement is:
2) Do TWO of the following:
a. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
b. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
c. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
d. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.


I would say a & b need to be two different places since TWO is in capital letters even if the capitol is on the register of historic places. (I would think that must capitols are on the register.) Both a & b require a discussion about it's history. If BSA wanted them combined they could have made them one item
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Postby WeeWillie » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:21 pm

EagleDan

Each merit badge requirement should stand alone. I know many Adults use the philosophy if it isn't specifically stated in the requirement that I can not, then I can. The result is Scouts with full merit badge sashes who haven't learned anything other than finding loop holes.

This is not a difficult requirement. There is no need to take short cuts.

By the way, I would insist that Scouts earning this badge have a copy of the Merit Badge Pamphlet in order to do it right.
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Postby evmori » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:08 am

FrankJ wrote:Since requirement is:
2) Do TWO of the following:
a. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
b. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
c. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
d. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.


I would say a & b need to be two different places since TWO is in capital letters even if the capitol is on the register of historic places. (I would think that must capitols are on the register.) Both a & b require a discussion about it's history. If BSA wanted them combined they could have made them one item


I am a Cit in the Nation counselor. If a Scout came to me and used the visited the same building for A & B, he should be able to explain both requirements. If he can do that, then the requirement is met. Two can be met by visiting one place.
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Postby FrankJ » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:11 am

Ed said:
I am a Cit in the Nation counselor. If a Scout came to me and used the visited the same building for A & B, he should be able to explain both requirements. If he can do that, then the requirement is met. Two can be met by visiting one place.


That why you have to talk to your merit made councilor. I read 'two' in the requirement to mean two different places, otherwise, to me, they are the same requirement. Ed interpets the requirement differently. In the end it is the councilor who signs the card who's opinion matters.
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Postby ASM-142 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:25 am

Requirement 2a is "visit" whereas 2b is "tour". Each of these requirements have different meanings and can be accoumplished on a single trip.
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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Postby jr56 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:28 pm

Yes, it is up to the counselor.
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Postby RMM » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:31 pm

Does it matter if the tour of the state capital was associated with a school field trip? I am hearing that if the trip was assicated with a school field trip it can not be used as part of this requirement. Your thoughts.
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Postby WeeWillie » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:50 pm

I don't see why anyone would object to a school field trip. The purpose of the requirement is to learn about the role of the Federal Goverment and the US Constitution. A school field trip certainly fufills that goal.
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Postby Mad Dog » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:58 pm

The requirement is to visit the site. It can be part of a school field trip or family vacation. In reading through merit badge requirements it is often possible to "double dip". If the school has a music or band program that would certainly help with the music merit badge etc.
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Postby Quailman » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:23 pm

So if you play in your HS band, and they're invited to play on the steps of the state capitol, which is on the National Registry of Historic Places, and you step inside to observe a state court session, and this is during the Greek Heritage Festival, and you get there by navigating with a compass and/or GPS unit, and on the way you observe thee different mammals and eight different birds, and you give a speech about your trip...

I think a clarification statement form National is in order to lay out what requirements can be double-dipped and what can't. Can touring the State Capitol building also meet the requirement of visiting a place that's a National Historic Landmark? If it were up to me, I'd ask that a boy visit two different places for these requirements.

At the same time, I agree that certain accomplishments could be used to satisfy multiple requirements if taken in a different context, like visiting a state courthouse to observe a court session. The building could be on the Registry of Historic Places, so you've killed two birds with one visit.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:39 pm

You have noticed that requirements are vague. That is the way they were written. Meet the requirement period. National will not give any more clarification than what is in the requirement book. If the MB Counselor feels the boy has met the requirements then he has.
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Re:

Postby alex gregory » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:19 pm

EagleDan wrote:I need to clarify something, I was wondering if visiting a state capitol can count for both a registered historic place and a capitol building visit.

I also am the merit badge counselor, so telling me to ask the MBC doesn't help much.

I was wondering what other MBCs thought about my question.

For the most part, you have answered my question.

Thanks.


I'm going to revive this topic since it's still relevant (at least to me).

As MBC for CIN I have to say no. 2a and 2b are separate requirements. That said, name me a State Capitol that is not within 25 miles of a registered historic landmark or building. For that matter, I imagine I would be hard-pressed not to find a historic building or landmark within 25 miles of a federal facility. Even for the kids who are not lucky enough to satisfy the badge in DC where it's all right there on the Mall, requirement 2 can easily be satisifed in one day by visiting two separate sites. For those few cases where a trip to the state capitol or a federal facility is just too far, there is always something historic nearby that satisfies 2a, and 2d just requires a quick visit to the library or internet.
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Re: Citizenship in the Nation - visiting historic sites

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:22 pm

I think they are separate requirements for a reason. They want the scout to understand what is involved in the National Historic Register process. Visiting the Capitols has a different reasoning behind it so the scouts can see where nothing gets done. :(
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