MBC First aid ?...

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Postby Hubert » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:42 pm

t305spl wrote:Hubert,



Give me a better reason why I can't be a MBC other then my age and I will be happy.



INDEED! I like that idea!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :D
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Postby RWSmith » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:13 am

t305spl wrote:Give me a better reason why I can't be a MBC other then my age and I will be happy.

Short answer: "Adult association"
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Postby Hubert » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:46 pm

RWSmith wrote:
t305spl wrote:Give me a better reason why I can't be a MBC other then my age and I will be happy.

Short answer: "Adult association"


Ok, one thing... :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


lol, I am lost. What is Adult Association?
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Postby RWSmith » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:14 am

Fair question.

One of the principle "Aims and Methods of the Scouting Program" is "Associations With Adults. Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults [including merit badge counselors] conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of the troop. In many cases a Scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives." (Emphasis added.)
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Postby t305spl » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:00 am

Yes, that does make sense, and that is a major part of the maturing process. But it still shouldn't limit what a qualified Youth in the organization can do. I don't think letting qualified Youth become MBC's in the areas they have qualifications would take away from the Adult Association part of Scouting. I still believe few Youth would be able to become MBC's but the ones that have the same or higher qualifications should be allowed to be a MBC.
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Postby Hubert » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:55 am

RWSmith wrote:Fair question.

One of the principle "Aims and Methods of the Scouting Program" is "Associations With Adults. Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults [including merit badge counselors] conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of the troop. In many cases a Scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives." (Emphasis added.)


But why would this be a factor? An 18 year old can be just as much, if not more of a role model as an adult. I am almost 18, there are many many kids who look up to me, 11 of them are my younger cousins, (yes my grandparents have 12 grandchildren) I know they look up to me. So a scout can look up to an 18 year old the same as he can an adult. Whats the difference, a role moddel is a role moddel, age is no factor of that. A kid will look up to someone for the qualities they posess, not for their age.
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Postby FrankJ » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:03 pm

I thing we are talk about two issues here. Please pick one

1)Not allowing an qualified 18 year old sign up for the as an MBC because of age. Short sited to say the least. Also a local policy not national.

2) Not allowing qualified youth ( <18 ) be an MBC. Like it or not MBC is an adult leader position. This says nothing about how the skills are learned or who teaches them. In the past the scout would largely read the merit badge book, teach themselves & the counselors would counsel & verify. Now days (at least in my district) most merit badges are completed in summer camp or clinics. Personally I think the old way is better. YMMV
Last edited by FrankJ on Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RWSmith » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:40 pm

The only thing I could add, in addition to FrankJ's post, is that ALL advancement is certified by an adult leader. (See http://www.meritbadge.net/phpbb/viewtop ... 5&start=15 for a recent thread on MBCs.)
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Postby Hubert » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:51 pm

OK guys, I am completly lost now. It started off as me asking if an 18 year old is alowed to be an MBC for Eagle Required badges. I have gotten many responses and I thank you for them.

I know you have to be 18 to be an MBC, I know that much. I was just wondering why I am being told I can be an MBC even at the age of 18 because those are major badges. Whats the difference in who teaches them, age is not a factor, experence and qualifactions speak louder than age.

Idk where the other subject came from so I am lost there...
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Postby RWSmith » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:30 am

Hubert wrote:....why I am being told I can['t] be an MBC even at the age of 18 because those are major badges.

Did you mean can't? Is somebody telling you that you can't MBC ERMBs at 18? If they are, that's bunk.
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Postby Hubert » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:49 pm

Yes, I did mean cant. They say that I am too close to their age to do so. Thats where the origional question came from. Asking if I should be able too even with qualifactionsn
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Postby WeeWillie » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:43 pm

Under 18
In loco parentis is Latin for "in the position of a parent." It is the legal premise for youth organizations such as Scouts to act in behalf of parents of minor children. By definition, someone under 18 is a minor child. Therefore, Scouts under 18 can not serve as in loco parentis.

Over 18
Rules regarding young adults are inconsistent. Young adults can be MBCs. However, young adults can not be SMs, CC, or CORs; they can't be tour leaders; and they can't drive on trips. These rules recognize that young adults are still maturing. Advancement policy allows young adults to serve as MBCs, however, the district or council can impose more stringent restrictions. Previous bad experience with young adult MBCs may influence that decision. Scouting's first responsibility is to the health, safety and welfare to our Scouts that may mean disappointing some of our younger motivated leaders.

The only time I have seen young adult MBCs is at controlled environments such as Summer Camp and Merit Badge Weekends.

I suspect National will be re-evaluating MBCs and don't be surprised if the age requirement is increased.

You can still teach 1st Aid to younger Scouts.
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Postby mhjacobson » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:22 am

I think that there is a difference between knowledge and experience. In a former role as an educational administrator, I often found that new teachers, no matter how many degrees that they may have, tend to not be as effective as teachers with some experience in the classroom.

When I worked in a medical setting, I found that interns (even they had the title of doctor) were not as effective as residents who often were not as effective as those who had completed their residency.

While a person may be able to say, 'gee I passed my paramedic qualifications,' that does not mean that they have the experience of a person who has been a paramedic for a few years.

It takes more than just being certified to make a good MB counselor -- it takes experience in the area so that the counselor can see if the scout really understands the concepts (rather than just parrotting the answers to questions), and it does take maturity to work with the scout who needs to have the answers drawn out of him (due to nervousness, learning disabilities, etc.) when you know that he knows the stuff but has problems expressing himself.
50 year+ scouter -- have held almost all adult leader positions in Cubs, Scouts, & Venturing, currently serving as Council Scouting for Youth with Disabilities Chair.
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Postby t305spl » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:16 am

mhjacobson,

While I completely agree with your statement, I have to say that I do not believe anyone here is discussing the difference for example of an adult holding an EMT certification for 15 years and a youth that has been a certified EMT for 2 years, experience is everything in emergency services.

I think the debate is more about an adult with "Basic or Advanced First Aid" certification being able to serve as a First Aid MBC, and a youth holding an EMT or equivalent not being able to. Clearly experience isn't the issue here, it is the training. If someone holding a "Basic or Advanced First Aid" certification can become a First Aid MBC, then someone who holds an EMT or even a CFR(Certified First Responder) certification should be able to serve as one as well.

IMO, I would much rather be medically assisted by the person(scout or adult) holding the CFR or EMT certification then the person holding the Basic or Advanced First Aid certification. I would also rather have the scouts taught First Aid by the person(scout or adult) holding the higher emergency certification with experience in that cert.
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