Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

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Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby ronin718 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:40 pm

Feedback request here... Boy does his 8 hrs. service time during the summer for an animal rescue group, working their adoption programs over three days. He writes up the report, presents it to the MBC, and is told he needs to get a letter from the group saying he did these hours. There was no sign in/out tracking by the group, so there's no way the group can verify independently after three months whether this work was done.

The issue I see here goes to the adding on of this letter requirement. There is nothing in the reqs that says a letter is required. Without this letter, can the MBC force the boy to re-do his time?
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby Billiken » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:46 pm

A scout is trustworthy.
IIRC, nowhere in the MB requirements does it say "present proof or documentation."

HOWEVER, it does say, "With your counselor's and your parent's approval....."
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby cballman » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:28 pm

If the child had pre-aprrovel the it fine but if he didnt then I would question the child about what he did and what he learned. No big deal unless there is a conflict between the MBC and Child. Also unless there is a reason for suspicion with the child in question.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby ronin718 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:52 pm

He had approval from both the MBC and the parents. Discussion was held with MBC prior to contacting the organization. Dad went with the boy for all work hours due to the fact the organization required parental supervision for youth under the age of 16.

Personal opinion is this is a delaying tactic on the part of the MBC since the boy in question is 12 y/o, Life, and this is one of two remaining EMBs.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby Billiken » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:01 pm

ronin718 wrote:He had approval from both the MBC and the parents. Discussion was held with MBC prior to contacting the organization. Dad went with the boy for all work hours due to the fact the organization required parental supervision for youth under the age of 16.

Personal opinion is this is a delaying tactic on the part of the MBC since the boy in question is 12 y/o, Life, and this is one of two remaining EMBs.


No question, the MBC is way out of line and adding to requirements.

This kind of stuff really makes me mad :x
I would contact your district advancement chair.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby ronin718 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:11 pm

Billiken wrote:This kind of stuff really makes me mad :x


Yep, me too. Especially since this is MY boy, and we've been fighting battles like this off and on for the two years we've been in the troop. Nobody will admit to it, but enough off-hand comments are made by certain Scouters regarding the rapid advancement to indicate a desire for a slower pace to be taken.

The troop's got a great program, just a few who have their own opinions on how things should be. We just keep on keeping on. :)
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby alex gregory » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:23 pm

So not only is the MBC in question refusing to accept the trustworthiness of the scout, but also the scout's parent?!?
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby ronin718 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:31 pm

I haven't stepped into the mess yet. I only found out about the letter requirement after our troop meeting this week. I'm trying to let my son handle this (see boy-run, boy-led, boy's MB). I've contacted the organization about the possibility of an acknowledgement of his service, but I'm not holding my breath, which will put us back into direct confrontation mode.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby Cowboy » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:40 pm

Bottom line: The MBC should have asked your son to have a "timesheet" when he approved the project. If he did not do this he is SOL! It is debatable whether this would be adding a requirement (IMO it is not) but to ADD this after the fact is definately out of line. The MBC should be ashamed for his behavior, appologize to you and your son and approve the MB. Of course it is easy for me to say that from 1000 miles away.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:16 am

Trust, but verify.

It all depends upon what was said when the MBC approved the service hours. Were you, the parent, there when it was discussed? I'd be surprised if the MBC didn't mention something when he approved the service. Of course, it may have been assumed on his part (or conversely, assumed it wasn't required on the Scout's part). If the adults were there with him, I don't see why it should be a problem to type up a short note with the details, run down there in person, jog the memory of someone who was there, and ask someone from the organization to sign it.

It's good practice for the Scouts to develop record-keeping skills. On paper is good, but we also use The President's Volunteer Service Award site [http://www.presidentialserviceawards.gov/]
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby Billiken » Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:06 pm

AquilaNegra2 wrote:Trust, but verify.

It all depends upon what was said when the MBC approved the service hours. Were you, the parent, there when it was discussed? I'd be surprised if the MBC didn't mention something when he approved the service. Of course, it may have been assumed on his part (or conversely, assumed it wasn't required on the Scout's part). If the adults were there with him, I don't see why it should be a problem to type up a short note with the details, run down there in person, jog the memory of someone who was there, and ask someone from the organization to sign it.


Nothing in the MB requirements states that the scout must present written proof (other than reporting on what he did).
MBC can not add to the requirements by demanding written letter/documentation from the organization.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby cballman » Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:52 pm

But as the devils advocate I will say that anytime you do something outside of scouting where this situation might arise sometimes it is best to ask for written documention. Not that any scout is untrustworthy but as a safeguard to keep this from happening.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby evmori » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:56 am

The requirements

Do the following:

1. Choose a charitable organization outside of Scouting that interests you and brings people in your community together to work for the good of your community.
2. Using a variety of resources (including newspapers, fliers and other literature, the Internet, volunteers, and employees of the organization), find out more about this organization.
3. With your counselor's and your parent's approval, contact the organization and find out what young people can do to help. While working on this merit badge, volunteer at least eight hours of your time for the organization. After your volunteer experience is over, discuss what you have learned with your counselor.


Nowhere does it state the Scout must turn in anything to the MBC!
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:53 pm

I use the term "credible evidence". sometimes that's a note from the Speech coach for Public Speaking MB or the Social studies teacher about their trip to the state capitol for Cit in Nation or in this case the parent (who had to take the scout to the organization for 8 hours), their verbal statement of completion.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby evmori » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:45 pm

I just did this MB with a couple of Scouts. They brought letters from who they volunteered for. I never asked for them.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby Quailman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:04 pm

Some organizations provide certificates of service hour credit as a matter of course. One I know of is my son's challenger little league, which recruits honor society members, student council officers and scouts to be buddies for the children with disabilities to play baseball. All those organizations expect their members to perform community service hours, and a couple of years ago a buddy coordinator whose child was also a buddy came up with the idea. The teens sign in on arrival, and during the games the Buddy Coordinator writes each name on a ceritificate.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby ronin718 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:51 pm

Update... The organization sent a letter stating my son worked three events during the month of August and gave him credit for 10 hours of service, so this is a moot issue for him. However, I'm inclined to send an email to our MBC Chair questioning this MBC's ability to demand this letter. It's not right, it's not fair, and it needs to be addressed.
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Re: Cit. in the Comm Req. 7

Postby Billiken » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:05 pm

ronin718 wrote: I'm inclined to send an email to our MBC Chair questioning this MBC's ability to demand this letter. It's not right, it's not fair, and it needs to be addressed.


Absolutely.....
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