When is a Scout Active?

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Postby milominderbinder2 » Thu May 22, 2008 12:57 pm

WVBeaver05 wrote:Yes, the requirement does say serve actively. But, remember what the official policy is on "active".

We may not like it, but one of our national trained advancement people explained it this way to me. If you allow a Scout to continue in a POR all of the time counts - period. If his performance is not satisfactory, it is up to the Troop leadership to address the issue(s) and take action. Action up to removal does not stop the clock on time for the POR. .

That is exactly what they teach at national advancement school.

If the Scoutmaster feels that a Scout is not performing satisfactorily in the position, the Scoutmaster can remove a Scout from a position of responsibility at any time. Just make sure the committee agrees with you first. But before you remove him...

1. Did the Scouts understand what would be needed in this position before they elected or appointed this Scout?
2. Did this Scout receive his PLC training this term?
3. Was he given clear written expectations?
4. After a month when he was not performing satisfactorily did the proper person counsel him? Did you set new written goals?
5. When he continued to not perform satisfactorily after two months, did you remove him and put a different Scout in the position?

Typically at least those last two answers are "No."

Think about it this way.

The Scoutmaster is the team manager. Your pitcher should have come out in the second inning but you kept him in until the 6th.

How many innings did he pitch?

6. Not 2.

The requirement is just that he played 4 or 6 innings, not how well he played.

If the pitcher should have been pulled in the second inning and wasn't whose fault is that?

Think about it another way. The Scout and leaders work for the Troop.

This requirement is asking for a verification of employment: "...While a ___ Scout, serve actively __ months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility..."

If a bank sends you a verification of employment for one of your workers, you verify the dates and the positions that they held. Even if the worker was on probation they were on your rolls as an active worker.

We can't add a requirement for a inning to count for a pitcher he had to play satisfactorily.

We can't add a requirement that to be counted as an active worker you had to perform satisfactorily.

And we can't add a requirement that the Scout is to ...perform at a satisfactory level as defined by your unit leader...

As long as the troop continues to actively keep a Scout in a position of responsibility, the Scout is actively in that position of responsibility.

If we failed to mentor or remove someone, that is a management problem.

- Craig
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Postby milominderbinder2 » Thu May 22, 2008 1:02 pm

milominderbinder2 wrote:
WVBeaver05 wrote:Yes, the requirement does say serve actively. But, remember what the official policy is on "active".

We may not like it, but one of our national trained advancement people explained it this way to me. If you allow a Scout to continue in a POR all of the time counts - period. If his performance is not satisfactory, it is up to the Troop leadership to address the issue(s) and take action. Action up to removal does not stop the clock on time for the POR. .

That is exactly what they teach at national advancement school.

If the Scoutmaster feels that a Scout is not performing satisfactorily in the position, the Scoutmaster can remove a Scout from a position of responsibility at any time. Just make sure the committee agrees with you first. But before you remove him...

1. Did the Scouts understand what would be needed in this position before they elected or appointed this Scout?
2. Did this Scout receive his PLC training this term?
3. Was he given clear written expectations?
4. After a month when he was not performing satisfactorily did the proper person counsel him? Did you set new written goals?
5. When he continued to not perform satisfactorily after two months, did you remove him and put a different Scout in the position?

Typically at least those last two answers are "No."

Think about it this way.

The Scoutmaster is the team manager. Your pitcher should have come out in the second inning but you kept him in until the 6th.

How many innings did he pitch?

6. Not 2.

The requirement is just that he played 4 or 6 innings, not how well he played.

If the pitcher should have been pulled in the second inning and wasn't whose fault is that?

Think about it another way. The Scout and leaders work for the Troop.

This requirement is asking for a verification of employment: "...While a ___ Scout, serve actively __ months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility..."

If a bank sends you a verification of employment for one of your workers, you verify the dates and the positions that they held. Even if the worker was on probation they were on your rolls as an active worker.

We can't add a requirement that innings only count if he played satisfactorily.

We can't add a requirement that to be counted as an active worker you had to perform satisfactorily.

And we can't add a requirement that the Scout is to ...perform at a satisfactory level as defined by your unit leader...

As long as the troop continues to actively keep a Scout in a position of responsibility, the Scout is actively in that position of responsibility.

If we failed to mentor or remove someone, that is a management problem.

- Craig
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Postby pipestone1991 » Sat May 24, 2008 9:53 pm

I think everything needs to be factored in. If a scout goes camping, makes most meetings (when he doesn't have sports), and other events, he is active. You can't just camp all the time and miss the meetings/projects and vice-versa.
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Postby joat » Sat May 24, 2008 10:47 pm

What is the national advancement school?
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Postby milominderbinder2 » Sun May 25, 2008 7:32 pm

joat wrote:What is the national advancement school?
A course taught at Philmont twice a year.

It is taught by the people who helped wirte the books we use.

It is simply amazing.

Click here:

http://www.scouting.org/HighAdventure/Philmont/PTC.aspx

It is just one of a list of amazing courses.

- Craig
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Re:

Postby international » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:34 pm

My son is a quatermaster, but he only did his job at the sumer camp, he had 2 more camp outs after that where he could've done his job, but one of them he could't make it and the next one was post poned to a latter date when he already had other stuf to do. Now he can advance,to star because he wasn't active has a quatermaster????!

I was told that he will need 3 more months has a quatermaster, but I don't know what to believe since I was also told that last week that he only needed 1 more week


Is that right?or can I fight the decition

Thank you soooo much!



milominderbinder2 wrote:
WVBeaver05 wrote:Yes, the requirement does say serve actively. But, remember what the official policy is on "active".

We may not like it, but one of our national trained advancement people explained it this way to me. If you allow a Scout to continue in a POR all of the time counts - period. If his performance is not satisfactory, it is up to the Troop leadership to address the issue(s) and take action. Action up to removal does not stop the clock on time for the POR. .

That is exactly what they teach at national advancement school.

If the Scoutmaster feels that a Scout is not performing satisfactorily in the position, the Scoutmaster can remove a Scout from a position of responsibility at any time. Just make sure the committee agrees with you first. But before you remove him...

1. Did the Scouts understand what would be needed in this position before they elected or appointed this Scout?
2. Did this Scout receive his PLC training this term?
3. Was he given clear written expectations?
4. After a month when he was not performing satisfactorily did the proper person counsel him? Did you set new written goals?
5. When he continued to not perform satisfactorily after two months, did you remove him and put a different Scout in the position?

Typically at least those last two answers are "No."

Think about it this way.

The Scoutmaster is the team manager. Your pitcher should have come out in the second inning but you kept him in until the 6th.

How many innings did he pitch?

6. Not 2.

The requirement is just that he played 4 or 6 innings, not how well he played.

If the pitcher should have been pulled in the second inning and wasn't whose fault is that?

Think about it another way. The Scout and leaders work for the Troop.

This requirement is asking for a verification of employment: "...While a ___ Scout, serve actively __ months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility..."

If a bank sends you a verification of employment for one of your workers, you verify the dates and the positions that they held. Even if the worker was on probation they were on your rolls as an active worker.

We can't add a requirement for a inning to count for a pitcher he had to play satisfactorily.

We can't add a requirement that to be counted as an active worker you had to perform satisfactorily.

And we can't add a requirement that the Scout is to ...perform at a satisfactory level as defined by your unit leader...

As long as the troop continues to actively keep a Scout in a position of responsibility, the Scout is actively in that position of responsibility.

If we failed to mentor or remove someone, that is a management problem.

- Craig
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:38 am

The time starts the minute he is appointed or elected to a position. IF the troop never went anywhere or dod anything(god forbid) he still put in the required time.
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby smtroop168 » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:53 am

Agree that if he has been in the POR for the time without being removed, he's good to go.

However.....One thing I tell my PORs that even if they can't go to the event, they are still responsible for ensuring their job is being taken care of and not just being dumped on the SM. QM is a critical position in this regard.
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby deweylure » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:17 am

We have some newly partially trained adults who are going to be taking on leadership roles in the Troop. Unfortunately some are trying to make a new rule that to be active means going to a certain % of camping trips ETC. I informed them of the Bsa definition of active is. The thought now is to let the inactive committee come up with the rule which I said they can not do.

I did point out that some scouts can not come due to heavy loads in school, school teams and family obligations not to mention the financial reasons of overpriced outings. (Thats another subject).

Its obvious to me that they received the training only because they needed the paper yet did not learn a thing.

going to the COR is not going to help as she does not know the program..

I have already contacted the DE and will keep him informed as i try to correct the problem.

I do not mean to rant but I am getting sick and tired of leaders who try to re invent the
the Scout requirements to meet there personal thought s

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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:29 am

deweylure wrote:I do not mean to rant but I am getting sick and tired of leaders who try to re invent the
the Scout requirements to meet there personal thought s


Have you been following the postings in the "boy led" forum?

Also the Advancement Committee book 33088 has the BSA definition of "active" if they want it in writing.
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:35 pm

Please not Again?????? :?
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:16 pm

I was looking up some stuff for the Cub leader and found this. Interesting that the BSA actually has a definition for Active other than registered for Webelos but not for Boy Scouts.


"Be an active member of your Webelos den for three months. (Active means having good attendance, paying your den dues, working on den projects). "
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:19 pm

Did you really have to bring this up again? :?
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:25 pm

Only because I got asked why the two were different.

The Active language doesn't appear in any other Cub Scout rank requirement. :shock:
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:34 pm

I understand that. But it will open the can of worms again. I wuld like BSA to say Point Blank this is it But They will not at this time. :lol:
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby FrankJ » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:42 pm

Or you could ask what is the attendance requirement for Sea Scout Quartermaster which is the equivalent to the Eagle rank.

# 3. Attend at least 75 percent of your ship's meetings and special activities for 18 months (including previous service of Apprentice, Ordinary, and Able).
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Re: When is a Scout Active?

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

FrankJ wrote:Or you could ask what is the attendance requirement for Sea Scout Quartermaster which is the equivalent to the Eagle rank.


Quote:
# 3. Attend at least 75 percent of your ship's meetings and special activities for 18 months (including previous service of Apprentice, Ordinary, and Able).


Thanks Frank...I was only looking at Cub Scout stuff.
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