Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

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Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby hoss1899 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:43 am

I see on the > MeritBadge.org > Positions of Responsibility page > bottom of the Venturing Crew section, there is a note on the Special Crew Officers positions that states
† To apply as an Eagle position of responsibility, Venturer must have earned Life Rank after January 1, 2007.
Looking at the BSA national website and searching the other Scouting websites I cannot find any other reference to this restriction.
This has become an issue for one of our boys who is applying for his Eagle rank and I wanted to make sure it was accurate.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:06 am

hoss1899 wrote:I see on the > MeritBadge.org > Positions of Responsibility page > bottom of the Venturing Crew section, there is a note on the Special Crew Officers positions that states
† To apply as an Eagle position of responsibility, Venturer must have earned Life Rank after January 1, 2007.
Looking at the BSA national website and searching the other Scouting websites I cannot find any other reference to this restriction.
This has become an issue for one of our boys who is applying for his Eagle rank and I wanted to make sure it was accurate.


I believe Den Chief was added as a Venture qualifying POR around that time so the scout would have had to be a Life Scout and still have time to complete the 6 months before he turned 18.

So if he earned Life Scout in 2006 and he was applying for Eagle as a Venture, he couldn't use Den Chief as his POR.

Maybe Paul Wolf or Wagion has more info on this one.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby PaulSWolf » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:29 am

Matt's right, to a point. Den Chief was added as a qualifying POR for Venturers around then (but it wasn't listed in the Boy Scout Requirements booklet until 2010), but IMHO, if the effective date really was 1/1/2007, the restriction should read
To apply as an Eagle position of responsibility, Venturer must have held that position while a Life Scout after January 1, 2007
Considering that's over 4 1/2 years ago, it's probably moot anyway.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:50 am

hoss1899...since you told us this is an issue, please give us the date timeline on this scout.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby hoss1899 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:48 pm

Thanks for the initial comments everyone, this is helpful.
The boy received his Life rank on 09-21-06. I'm trying to get the dates that he served as the Crew Guide. His 18th birthday was 07-02-11.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:35 pm

Not to be snippy, but its a little late to be figuring that out now. Where was this flagged?

Didn't his Unit Leader get that figured out when he presented his Eagle Application at the SM conference?

He had to be in a Troop post his Life BOR since he was 13, then did he not ever have a POR?

If he joined a Crew at 14, then did he not a POR other than Den Chief for 4 years?
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby hoss1899 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:39 pm

No offense taken...
The boy has been dually registered with both our Crew and Troop since he turned 14. In our Troop the 2 groups are separate entities run by different groups of adult SM's and Crew Advisors, with a common Troop Committee. Our Crew boys do a dual reg to participate in the activities of both groups.
I am the Troop SM and the issue came up when I was researching something else for the same boy. I happened to find the leadership restriction note and became concerned we were not following BSA policy. The boys Eagle B of R is tomorrow night. I brought it up to the CA who is also the boy's Eagle mentor and he had no knowledge of the restriction. He referred it to our Council Advancement Coordinator and I contacted this forum since they are associated with the MeritBadge.org site having the note.
Any way not to bore you with a lot of details, I heard back from our Council guy today who talked to a Program Specialist for Advancement at National. The National guy checked and confirmed that the restriction found on Meritbadge.org is not correct (pointing out that it is an unofficial site). This puts my mind at ease.
Thanks to everyone for their comments. This forum seems like a great place to research Scouting info.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby RWSmith » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:31 am

I've added a note to the discussion page. See: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Talk:Positions_of_Responsibility.

I'll provide an update.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:20 am

RW..I think it's worded incorrectly as Paul says. There were 4 BS PORs that were added as Venture BORs to qualify for Eagle after 1 Jan 2008. So if a Venture wanted to use Den Chief as a qualifier for Eagle, he couldn't unless he was a Life Scout after that. Or it could have been it was supposed to be 2008 vice 2007 typo.


Break...did you get a chance to fix the Discontinued MB page that i asked about? Thanks
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby FrankJ » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:26 am

I would think if you where earning the rank under the 2011 requirements, it would not matter when you held the position, it would count. Even if it was not a listed position when you held it.

Anyway glad it was positively resolved.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:31 am

Unless the only POR he had post Life was Den Chief in a crew prior to the position being a qualifier. You have to list the dates of your post Life POR on your Eagle application.


Seen this where the scout wanted to use Bugler for Eagle since he used it for Life and it doesn't count.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby FrankJ » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:25 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Unless the only POR he had post Life was Den Chief in a crew prior to the position being a qualifier. You have to list the dates of your post Life POR on your Eagle application.


So using this logic those that earned the chess merit badge prior to it being Eagle required will have to to earn it again? How do you even record something like that? (New eagle required merit badges are to be announced in the soon to be released AP&P book.) :twisted: I hear that they are also going to get rid of those pesky merit badges like camping.

It must be April 1st somewhere.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby RWSmith » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:46 pm

smtroop168 wrote:RW..I think it's worded incorrectly as Paul says. There were 4 BS PORs that were added as Venture BORs to qualify for Eagle after 1 Jan 2008. So if a Venture wanted to use Den Chief as a qualifier for Eagle, he couldn't unless he was a Life Scout after that. Or it could have been it was supposed to be 2008 vice 2007 typo.

Yeah, frankly, I don't like the way it's worded, either. (I'm thinking maybe it the editor's misinterpretation of added PORs for Eagle in 2007, which was incorrectly (very poorly worded) on the updated ESRA and not corrected 'til 2008 (2009?) ESRA.

At any rate, anybody is welcome continue this over on the talk page: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Talk:Positions of Responsibility

smtroop168 wrote:Break...did you get a chance to fix the Discontinued MB page that i asked about? Thanks

Take a look at:

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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby smtroop168 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:44 pm

RWSmith wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:RW..I think it's worded incorrectly as Paul says. There were 4 BS PORs that were added as Venture BORs to qualify for Eagle after 1 Jan 2008. So if a Venture wanted to use Den Chief as a qualifier for Eagle, he couldn't unless he was a Life Scout after that. Or it could have been it was supposed to be 2008 vice 2007 typo.

Yeah, frankly, I don't like the way it's worded, either. (I'm thinking maybe it the editor's misinterpretation of added PORs for Eagle in 2007, which was incorrectly (very poorly worded) on the updated ESRA and not corrected 'til 2008 (2009?) ESRA.

At any rate, anybody is welcome continue this over on the talk page: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Talk:Positions of Responsibility

smtroop168 wrote:Break...did you get a chance to fix the Discontinued MB page that i asked about? Thanks

Take a look at:




Great...thanks much.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby smtroop168 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:47 pm

FrankJ wrote:
smtroop168 wrote: I hear that they are also going to get rid of those pesky merit badges like camping.

It must be April 1st somewhere.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I understand they are going to help those that can't figure out what a week of long term camping is though.

It's 6. :wink:
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby Reasonable Rascal » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:53 pm

smtroop168 wrote:I understand they are going to help those that can't figure out what a week of long term camping is though.

It's 6. :wink:


Doesn't it actually depend on the camp's week, i.e. one long-term camp experience? Some of the locals think it is limited to 5 days (nights) because that is what the local area camp offers - a Mon - Sat program. The camp our troop usually attends has a Sat - Sat program (7 nights).

Semi-seriously offered in the spirit of stirring the pot a bit. :twisted:

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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby smtroop168 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:18 am

Reasonable Rascal wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:I understand they are going to help those that can't figure out what a week of long term camping is though.

It's 6. :wink:


Doesn't it actually depend on the camp's week, i.e. one long-term camp experience? Some of the locals think it is limited to 5 days (nights) because that is what the local area camp offers - a Mon - Sat program. The camp our troop usually attends has a Sat - Sat program (7 nights).

Semi-seriously offered in the spirit of stirring the pot a bit. :twisted:

RR


Exactly why they are giving it a number...to make it consistent for all scouts.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby Bill Pitcher » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:33 pm

This is great, Matt. It eliminates the ambiguity, for the OA also!
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby kc9901mom » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:06 pm

Can someone please explain why there is an age requirement on the POR of Leave No Trace Trainer?

Currently on the Scouting.org, the wording is age 14 or completed the 16-hour LNT Trainer course. My Council is lacking LNT Master Educators and LNT Trainers (Adults) and has not offered LNT training that I'm aware of except for LNT Awareness for Adult Leaders at Summer Camp (which I took). Another Council is offering the training for Adults and Scouts but they have an age requirement of 14 to register for the class. The class is in Oct. a month before my son's 13th Birthday.

My boys have been in Scouting since 2nd and 1st grade. All of our Cub Masters, Assistant Cub Masters, and Den Leaders heavily emphasized the principles of LNT. (Before crossing over, we were on our 4th Cub Master and 3rd Assistant). Both of my boys as Cubs earned the Cub Scout World Conservation Award and LNT Awareness Award. My oldest is 12 and is First Class (about to earn Star after he completes his SM-assigned Leadership Project to help the Troop earn a Unit Hornaday Certificate (Award)). Our Troop currently does not have a LNT Trainer (although the Troop has plenty of boys that are 14 or older). My oldest has earned the Environmental Science MB and is working on the Camping MB. He practices LNT on each of his camping/outdoor trips (Scout and non-Scout) and he knows all 7 principles from memory. I think our Troop camps at least 10 times in a year (or more; we changed Troops in Feb.) and my oldest has 24 days and nights :D of camping under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America.
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Re: Positions of Responsibility Restrictions

Postby PaulSWolf » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:37 pm

I believe the age requirement is one set by the agency that runs and certifies the LNT Trainer program. BSA must follow their guidelines to use the title for the position.
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