BOR conducted in error

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BOR conducted in error

Postby Quailman » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:57 am

The AC apparently entered MBs incorrectly, so that a First Class Scout received a SM conference and BOR last Monday. Now she's discovered an error, and he is one MB short of the requirement for Star. Do we have to conduct a new BOR once he completes that MB?

We took the word of the AC when we held the BOR, as she printed the Troopmaster BOR report which listed everything as complete.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby FrankJ » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:33 am

If you did not hold another board of review, the dates would look funny on the Eagle App if he gets that for. Probably would not be an issue. I am not sure that scoutnet (internet advancement) counts merit badges for advancement. If so it will not be possible to actually award the rank before the requirements are met.

I would probably reconvene the BOR when the scout earns the required MB. Say congratulations on your new rank & close the BOR. No need for a full BOR.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:26 pm

When you say that the AC entered MB's incorrectly, what exactly does that mean? Are all of the Star required MB's entered into ScoutNet as being completed by this Scout? Are they only entered incorrectly in the Troop records, and not sent to council or entered into ScoutNet under this Scout?

Have the BOR results been entered into ScoutNet?

If nothing has been reported to council, or entered into ScoutNet, the easiest thing is to talk to the Scout and tell him of the error (both the AC and the Scout should have caught this). Relay to him what needs to be done before a new BOR can be held.

If this Scout's records in ScoutNet show him as having completed all Star required MB's, and as having successfully completed his Star BOR, then, as far as BSA is concerned, this Scout IS Star.

I would have a SM conference with him, explain the error that BOTH he and the AC made, and let him know that he will be expected to complete the unearned MB BEFORE, completing any requirements for his next rank.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby cballman » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:13 pm

I have a thought. Maybe the child earned either swimming, hiking or cycling. If he has earned two of these they will be recorded a Eagle required. Until you get to the Eagle rank. Then you will have to pick which one to use. Just check this out and if it is so then there was no error.

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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby Quailman » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:16 pm

He did everything for Cit Nation at Winter Camp except the letter to his congressman. He sent that off and made a copy so he thought he was done. He requested a BOR and it was scheduled and done, even though he had not followed up with a MBC to finish CiN. He met with a MBC this afternoon and got it signed off. Our new AC politely congratulated him and said it would be awarded at the next CoH since it came in too late.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:46 pm

To answer the question, since the requirement were not complete at the time of the first BOR, you could call that BOR invalid and hold another when the MB is complete. Then his official rank date would be after the MB earned date and there would be no further problem when looking at his record at Eagle Application time.

You guys need to fix the process that caused this to occur. The SM could have caught this at the SMC when ensuring all requirments were met prior to sending him to a BOR. The scout would have had to turn in a Blue Card with the MBC signature to the SM and he would have given it to the AC. On what basis did the AC enter this MB into TM? Sounds like a rush job since you say the SMC and BOR was on the same night.

Quailman wrote:Our new AC politely congratulated him and said it would be awarded at the next CoH since it came in too late.


What will be awarded at the next COH? MB? Star? You should award any badges when they are earned...not wait for the next COH.

Interesting fact for Quailman...The Chairman of the National Advancement Commitee is from your Council.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby kwildman » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:59 pm

smtroop168 - i wish that was printed in bold and in 32pt font in the advancement guidance. Give the kids the rank when they earn them. :twisted:
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:40 pm

kwildman wrote:smtroop168 - i wish that was printed in bold and in 32pt font in the advancement guidance. Give the kids the rank when they earn them. :twisted:


:D not in 32 font but is in GTA para 3.0.0.3 Unit Advancement Responsibilities para 4 on pg 13.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby Quailman » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:19 pm

We held the CoH last night. Earlier in the day I e-mailed the new AC and told her that I wanted the young man to get his Cit in Nat MB and rank, and since I knew it was too late to get to the Scout Shop, the CM who is also on the District Advancement Committee would bring them. When I got there, I told the SM and now he's not speaking to me. His wife was the former AC who was supposed to transition to the new one, with the hondover of full responsibility being this CoH.

This has turned into a total fiasco. After the CoH, the husband of the AC e-mailed the entire leadership group, saying that this scout has lied, and that I only granted his advancement to antagonize the SM and his wife. Oh, he also resigned from the committee and said he is pulling his boy from the troop.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:34 pm

The SM who allowed the scout to go to a BOR is unhappy?

Which AC made the TM error?

The husband of the old AC is the SM? Was the old AC on the BOR?

You have a CM who is on the DAC? Why couldn't he answer your original post?

Let them go and don't waste anymore time on them.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby FrankJ » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:33 pm

children children behave.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby FractionalGuy » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:38 am

It would appear that the unit is not using the BSA 'blue card' for the MB process. If this had been done, and the youth turned-in the signed portion of the card and the AC recorded it on that basis, this situation would not have occurred. So I would encourage the unit to put this process in place and follow BSA's procedures for this as a means to prevent a similar situation from occurring in the future.

When the error was uncovered, the AC was correct in simply visiting with the youth and correcting the situation. There is no need for an additional BOR, and once approved by the BOR, the youth would be entited to be recognized/receive his rank award. However, it would have been appropriate to also have contacted the District's Advancement Chair for guidance.

There may be a need in the future for a letter from the unit leadership acknowleding what happened as processing a future Eagle application may have to be handled manually due to the MB dates relative to the BOR. I would suggest that the letter be developed and signed by the AC and CC, then filed for future use, with a copy given to the parents should it be needed if the youth should transfer units. Explain to the parents that the letter may be needed in processing the youth's Eagle Application and that it should be included with the application packet.

The SM conference is not a point where the youth is 'signed-off'/approved to have a BOR, nor is it required as a final step prior to a BOR. See 4.2.3.5. Furthermore, it is the unit adults that are responsible for arranging the BOR for the youth. Generally the unit leader working with the AC to communicate that the youth has completed the requirements and is ready for the next step. This may also be another adult whom has been authorized/signed-off on other requirements, or even the AC when he determines that the MB requirements have been met and has checked with the unit leader or reviewed the youth's handbook. See 8.0.0.2.

Human errors occur, both youth and adult. The situation should be looked at as an opportunity to improve the process while keeping the mission of BSA in mind. Sometimes people over-react, especially when never having been confronted with similar situations in the past, and then sometimes realize that in the overall picture, it's but a bump in the road...
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:22 am

Welcome to the Forum Fractional Guy.

If you follow a number of the posts on here you will discover there is almost always a "Paul Harvey" rest of the story we don't get until the 3rd or 4th post.

In this case, there are adult personalities that get in the way of correcting the problem and putting processes in to ensure it doesn't happen again.

National will tell you the date of the scout's Star rank that must be entered in when he completed all the requirements (e.g. MB completion). If the unit wants to but a note in the scout's Advancement file, so be it.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:03 am

Quailman wrote:He did everything for Cit Nation at Winter Camp except the letter to his congressman. He sent that off and made a copy so he thought he was done. He requested a BOR and it was scheduled and done, even though he had not followed up with a MBC to finish CiN. He met with a MBC this afternoon and got it signed off. Our new AC politely congratulated him and said it would be awarded at the next CoH since it came in too late.


Just another thought, I guess another option would be for the MBC to sign the MB card with the date the scout sent off his letter since that completes the requirement and no response from the letter is required. That date would surely be before the BOR date.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby Quailman » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:15 am

***UPDATE***

The SM is trying to recruit parents to form a new unit. Just got this from one who was not contacted, who had heard it from one who was.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:23 am

Quailman wrote:***UPDATE***

The SM is trying to recruit parents to form a new unit. Just got this from one who was not contacted, who had heard it from one who was.


See..Paul Harvey is alive and well.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Quailman - When you sent your District Advancement Committee member to pick up the merit badge, what date did you put on the Advancement Report as the "Date Earned"? Hopefully it (and the Blue Card if used) was backdated to BEFORE the BOR. That would have solved any date conflicts down the road.

It sounds like a messy hornets nest of folks passing the buck after making a few fairly simple (and easily correctable) errors.

I am unsure of who is against who, and who is pulling out of the Troop, and why, however it seems this incident was only the tip of a very big iceberg.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby jr56 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:34 pm

Just another sad example. In my years of scouting, very few problems come from the youth. Most porblems are from UNTRAINED adults not following procedure and wanting to do things their own way.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby Quailman » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:16 am

The sad thing is that the guy who was the SM and pulled out has attended plenty of training sessions. He's the main reason I don't think Woodbadge is worthwhile. He's always making his own rules. Our recently appointed Unit Commissioner looked at the situation and said we should be glad to see him go.

I (CC) met with him and our COR for over four hours Thursday evening to see if we couldn't work things out. The SM brought a friend (MC). We discussed several differences and issues, most notably how to avoid repeating the mistakes that led to conducting a BOR when all requirements weren't met. I thought we were all in agreement that there was plenty of blame to go around. At the end of the meeting, as we wrapped up, he said, "I did nothing wrong." He went on to say the he wasn't really looking forward to starting a troop, because "I'll have to recruit for my committee and my CC." I was concerned that His friend would get him to change his mind about leaving.

Last night's committee meeting came, and it went well. We agreed on how to schedule BORs in the future and a couple other matters. Then the SM and his assistants arrived. The SM gave a brief report and then announced that he would be leaving with several troop members. He handed over a list of who was going, and I noticed only two remaining ASMs, both of whom registered in the last eight weeks. We met with them afterwards, and we will be much better off going forward. There's a lot of work to do, but we will survive.

Sorry to vent, but last night was my first good night's sleep in two weeks.
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Re: BOR conducted in error

Postby lambeausam » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:19 am

Old fashioned thought here...Use the handbook. The scoutmaster should be looking at the signed handbook at the scoutmaster conference. If there are signatures missing, such as for complete merit badges, then the BOR shouldn't be held until verfication that the requirements have been completed.
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