Removal of Lodge numbers

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Removal of Lodge numbers

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:56 pm

I was thinking what does everyone think of removing the Lodge Numbers from the Lodges?
Many may not know but from now on your lodge will be your Lodge name and council # for paper work.
My Lodge will Be Wagion Council 512 no longer Wagion #6 Council 512
WE were also notified we would have to change our Flaps to reflect this.
So they will say Wagion Order of the Arrow
Oh, Any replies please include your Lodge name and Number not Council Number
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Postby Buffalo Bill » Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:07 pm

Huh, did this come out of NOAC?

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Postby wagionvigil » Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:14 pm

Actually Not But it was discussed. I have the information somewhere in my system and I will get it to you. It actually started Last year when you rechartered but few caught it. The Lodge Numbers were left off of the Charters.
Ok found It
www.oaimages.com/nonumbers.shtml
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Postby Buffalo Bill » Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:46 pm

Oh well, it does sorta make sense the way they state it.

I can sure live with it.

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Postby wagionvigil » Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:00 pm

I come from a Lodge with a low # 6. Unami is 1. we are the Early history of the OA. It hurts the low # lodges. I feel the real reason was the last reason they gave. That it makes Mergers easier. Several years ago we looked at a merger with a neighboring council. They Demanded that the Lodge name be dropped as well as the number be done away with. Needless to say the Lodge was very vocal against the merger and it did not happen. To go from Wagion #6 to Wagion 512 is not the best thing goin.
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Postby BM_Crawford » Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:04 pm

I am also from Wagion Lodge #6 Council 512

I completely agree with you WagionVigil about it hurting the low number lodges and that we should keep our number. I think its a good idea for paperwork but I think it should stop there. Maybe have Wagion Lodge Council 512 for buisness issues....actually I'm not really sure what I think all I know is I think we should keep our old low number.
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Postby scoutmasterbob » Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:33 am

I think it just makes the old OA flaps collector items.....
Councils can sell more patches.

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Postby Guneukitschik » Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:32 pm

I'm not all that convinced whoever came up with the idea really gave it any amount of thought? When it comes right down to it?? the lodge numbers have been around since the beginning so why not keep them? I don't think anyone from National is being baffeled by all the paper work with both a lodge number and a council number?

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Postby cballman » Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:50 am

I am from Kawida lodge #480 in the Bluegrass council in KY. After reading this forum about changes My 2 cents worth. if national want and expects all lodges to change and suit some pencil pusher in national --then national should foot the bill for the cost of all patch and lodge IDs that would be affected by the cost stupidity. because if each lodge would have to pay for that stuff than what would take a lot away from the kids in each lodge that is affected.
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Postby BM_Crawford » Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:09 pm

That does make alot of sense! I never even thought of the situation from a profit stand point!
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Postby wagionvigil » Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:20 pm

No one has to go out and buy new flaps until the old supply is exhausted and if most Lodges are like Wagion we order about twice a year. SO when they reorder the number comes off the new order.AS anything is BSA once you have it you can always wear it so I see most lodge members wearing thier old flaps. I came in the Lodge in 1963 and prefer to wear the flap I was given when I joined.
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Postby Rick Tyler » Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:57 pm

You could do what I do and completely ignore my lodge number. To be honest, I would have to go check to even know what it is.

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Postby Billvann » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:53 am

As if this is going to improve the level of service to scouts and scouters.

I guess in the long run it makes no difference as eventually all of the chapters and lodges will merge into one with all chapter/lodge meetings held in Texas. :roll:

Actually, my true opinion on mergers in general is not that flattering to BSA. I understand that they are mostly done to consolodate administration and staff as operating expenses are reduced. That may be a necessary part of today's economic reality. However, I see no need to merge districts nor chapters or lodges. A council can advise 2 lodges almost as easily as one since much of the effort to support lodge activites is done at the volunteer level. In fact, merging may even reduce the level of support as volunteer roles become merged as well so that were once two volunteers served "X" number of OA members, now one volunteer serves "2X" members.

District and Chapter consolodation also reduces active participation as it invariably moves roundtable and chapter meetings further away from the scvouters and, more importanly, the youth. As you expand the geographic area covered by a chapter, more and more youth will be farther away from the meeting place. In urban areas, it's an inconvenience of a long bus or subway ride. In rural areas, it's a longer car ride and many OA members don't drive. Is it a wonder that participation drops?
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:16 pm

In a Merger there is a time frame that the Lodges must merge. No council is permitted to have more than 1 OA Lodge. In the past there were three options. Keep the lowest number,keep the higher number,get a new number. ALso the name comes into play keep one of the two or three in some cases or rename the Lodge
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Postby RWSmith » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:22 pm

Go straight to the quote if you're in a hurry. But, I beleive you guys will find this interesting...

Participants at the National Order of the Arrow Conference are given the opportunity to meet and question members of the National Order of the Arrow Committee at the "Meet the Man" sessions. The National Committee members who participated in sessions at the 2004 NOAC were:

    1. Brad Haddock - Chairman
    2. Mathew Walker - Vice-Chairman, National Events
    3. Glenn T. Ault, M.D. - Vice-Chairman, Finance
    4. Thomas E. Reddin - Vice-Chairman, Region & Section Operations
    5. Michael G. Hoffman - Vice-Chairman, Leadership Development
    6. Alberto Mounz II - Sustaining Member-at-Large

Question to the panel: "Why did the National OA Committee switch to using council numbers instead of keeping lodge numbers?"

"Lodge numbers at one time had a historical value. However, when some lodges merged, they were able to choose whatever number was open. This resulted in lodge numbers no longer having the original historical values. Also, having a lodge number separate from the council number caused some confusion. For example, when a lodge is recognized as Wah-Sha-She Lodge 42, Ozark Trails Council #306, people have to know both the 42 and the 306. The rest of the BSA uses just the council number to identify councils. Since lodges are part of their council, national can just use the council number to also represent the lodge within it. Individual lodges can continue to use the lodge number on patches or any other memorabilia, but you will use the council number when registering for events like NOAC, rechartering, and so on. Unless you have the same number for both your lodge number and council number, you will not use your lodge number on national forms. When national recognizes a lodge, they will use the council number."


Here's the link: Meet The Man.

I thought I had another good url for "official" info. on this. Alas, I've lost it. Maybe it'll find it's way home, later.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:27 pm

Thanks Bob. I asked my guys that went to NOAC for a copy but have not got it yet.
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Postby RWSmith » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:33 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Thanks Bob. I asked my guys that went to NOAC for a copy but have not got it yet.


Bro., We all know you are :P the man. :P And I figured you'd be all over it. I just happened to luck up and find that little tid bit while I was digging for the other URL.
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