Square Knots and Shoulder Loops

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Square Knots and Shoulder Loops

Postby schneizenator » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:59 pm

I've seen other links posted on this forum, but they are either not functional or I cannot find out what they me.

This has been baffeling me ever since I joined scouts.

What do the various square knots and colored shoulder loops signify? I know why people get them, but what are the requirements? By the way, ive seen red, green, gold, silver, black, blue loop at least
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Postby OldGreyBear » Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:12 am

lets see, Loops, Loops Loops

Blue = Cub Scouts
Red = Boy Scouts
Green = Venture Crew /Explorers
Orange = Varsity Scouts
Silver = Disirct/Council Position
Gold = National Position

not sure about the black unless it was in for mourning a passed scout
BTW I thnk my colors are right, but I could be wrong

and when it comes to knots, try this

http://www.quapawbsa.org/db/uploads/103 ... poster.pdf
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Postby PaulSWolf » Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:17 pm

OldGreyBear wrote:lets see, Loops, Loops Loops

Blue = Cub Scouts
Red = Boy Scouts
Green = Venture Crew /Explorers
That should read Green = Venturers
Explorers are not members of BSA and do not wear the BSA uniform.
Orange = Varsity Scouts
Silver = Disirct/Council Position
Gold = National Position
Gold is for National or Regional level positions.
not sure about the black unless it was in for mourning a passed scout
BTW I thnk my colors are right, but I could be wrong

and when it comes to knots, try this

http://www.quapawbsa.org/db/uploads/103 ... poster.pdf


You can also see the knots and what they stand for at http://usscouts.org/awards/knots1.html and detailed information at http://usscouts.org/awards/knots2.html
Paul S. Wolf, P.E.(Ret.) mailto:pwolf@usscouts.org
Secretary, US Scouting Service Project, Inc.
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Postby OldGreyBear » Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:03 pm

So I did some things right ?
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Awards and loops

Postby riverwalk » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:21 pm

:roll: I just joined the forums here, so be gentle with me while I figure it out, haha.

Yeah, I don't recognize the black loops, unless it's in the Exploring program? These units (Posts usually) are certainly in the BSA, though not in a Scout uniform. They choose their own Uniform, and may adopt that of their sponsoring Organization. Of course some would be a Unit that didn't wear a "Uniform" as we know it.

"Knots" have many website places to view them, read requirements, and print out your own Progress record. Many of these sites however show incorrect knots, or simply aren't updated with the latest "Knot" award patch. The two examples (sites) are useful, but show my point...one example is the Meany Award knot. Look at both sites and see the difference. Remember the knot isn't the Award, but represents it. This may even help confuse folks as some Scouters have their knots on backwards. We can make sure ours are in order, then we can hope to influence all the mistakes on Scout uniforms (usually due to untrained parents).
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Postby wagionvigil » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:36 pm

Sorry, there are still explorers in the BSA.
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Postby commish3 » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:10 pm

Where would that be wagionvigil? Exploring, as Paul correctly explained was moved to Learning for Life which is a separate corporation from the BSA. I am unaware of any program in the BSA other than Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and Venturing.
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Postby wagionvigil » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:20 pm

It may be a separate corporation but it is still BSA.
My Monthly totals come from the Regional Office and the Numbers count in our membership for each council. region, and district.
It may not be traditionsl scouting but it is still BSA
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Postby commish3 » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:56 pm

I believe you are mistaken wagionvigil. While Learning for Life (LFL) is administered through councils by a local Learning for Life professional, they are paid by LFL and not the BSA. If you vist the LFL national Website you will not find the BSA name or logos, nor will you find any explaination of the LFL on the BSA national website or in any BSA materials. All LFL resources are developed and published by the LFL.

LFL is in fact owned by Boys Life and Scouting magazines (also separate from the BSA). LFL ia a separate but wholey owned subsidiary corporation. LFL has it's own separate budget, officers,income sources, and a mission and vision that is different than that of the BSA.

LFL can accept government funding that the BSA cannot, it has unique membership qualifications from the BSA, and can operate through educational and governmental organizations that the BSA does not qualify to use.

The LFL is not served by the commisioner corps of the BSA and its members are not allowed to wear the symbols or recieve the same awards and recognitions as the members of the BSA are allowed.

So truly and legally there are no Explorers in the BSA, but only in the LFL.
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Postby wagionvigil » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:06 pm

Introduction
Many older Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Explorers, and Venturers consider high adventure the highlight of their outdoor Scouting experiences. The Passport to High Adventure tells how they can—with guidance from their adult leaders—plan and safely carry out council and unit high-adventure treks using Leave No Trace techniques. Older youth seek out these programs; it's what keeps them high on Scouting. High adventure challenges and inspires them—and their leaders—and broadens their appeal for Scouting. This is why Scoutmasters and Advisors must make high-adventure opportunities a priority, promoting participation by unit members who are qualified for these elite outdoor activities.
Your council may already have a canoeing or backpacking high-adventure program, but high adventure often transcends conventional Scouting activities. Collectively, the councils that have high-adventure programs offer these activities and more:

Bicycle touring
Caving
Horse packing
Mountain biking
Rafting
Rappelling
Rock climbing
Sailing
Scuba diving
Skiing and snowboarding






Learning Objectives
At the end of this session, each participant should be able to
Identify and utilize Passport to High Adventure as a resource for planning and carrying out high-adventure activities.
State where to locate information about different types of council high-adventure opportunities.
Describe the steps to plan and safely carry out a unit high-adventure trek.

Materials
Passport to High Adventure, No. 4310
National Tour Permit Application, No. 4419A
Tours and Expeditions, No. 33735A
Personal Health and Medical Record Form—Class 3, No. 34412
Guide to Safe Scouting, No. 34416
Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426

Identify the Problems
Invite the participants to relate their personal experiences with planning and training for a trek. Ask them about times they have been unprepared. Have participants declare their one most indispensable piece of literature.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction | Learn the Ins and Outs | Planning Group Adventures | Develop an Itinerary

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Boy Scouts of America http://www.scouting.org

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All thumbs are fingers, but all....

Postby riverwalk » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:17 pm

:o Well, we know the rest, haha. It is I think, confusing. It shouldn't be a problem, at least it isn't for me. I'm convinced that Exploring is still a BSA thing. This is like the Venturing/Sea Scouts thing...kinda sorta. Sea Scouts seems to be part of the Venturing program.....but some veteran Sea Scouters think it's separate. Perhaps this depends on one's frame of reference, or their personal interest area, I can't know. But that might explain why some don't see how a Scouter can wear a Cub Scouting knot when in a Boy Scout position. :?:
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Postby commish3 » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:35 pm

Print date? I ask because prior to Explorers being moved to LFL , while it was still in the BSA, Venturing crews were a part of the troop rather than a separate unit. So that publication at the time of its printing would have included Explorers and Venturers as part of the BSA. Since that time the structure of both Exploring and Venturing has changed.

Contact your local BSA professional and you will find that the information Paul gave was correct.
Last edited by commish3 on Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby wagionvigil » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:40 pm

came from the BSA web site today
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Postby commish3 » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:42 pm

But you need to look at the last edition date of the publication.
See the explaination above as to why.
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Postby wagionvigil » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:02 pm

Passport to adventure Online Training
This is the current online training for passport to adventure
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Postby commish3 » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:31 pm

I certainly do not want to seem argumentative in any way, but if the publication you are referencing is current then why is it referencing such outdated materials?

National Tour Permit Application, No. 4419A Is now 4419C
Tours and Expeditions, No. 33735A is now 3373C
Personal Health and Medical Record Form—Class 3, No. 34412 is now 34412A
Guide to Safe Scouting, No. 34416 is now 34416D
Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426 is now 34426D

So it would seem that the references used in the passport to adventure you reference are severly outdated and have been through many revisions. As I pointed out it was most likely written at a time prior to the creation of Venturing as a separate program and refers to Venturers as older troop scouts and Explorers prior to there restructuring to LFL.

I hope that helps to explain it.
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Postby ilduncans » Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:06 am

The separation between Explorers as part of Learning for Life (a wholly owned subsidiary of the Boy Scouts of America) and the good ol' BSA hit me full in the face last time our district's units rechartered. I went an extra round with a professional, as a unit attempted to list an Explorer on their charter as a "multiple", with their primary registration through LFL.

Answer above is correct -- Although an Explorer who has registered with LFL may also register with BSA, these are completely separate registrations with completely separate organizations. An explorer cannot be listed as a multiple as was attempted in this case, and must pay a second annual registration fee.
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