When is a Scout Active?

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When is a Scout Active?

Postby milominderbinder2 » Sun May 18, 2008 6:24 pm

Check out the new article on the Wiki for details and references.

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Active

Simple answer: Only active Scouts can be registered.

If a Scout is registered, they are active.

- Craig
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Postby FrankJ » Sun May 18, 2008 7:07 pm

I agree that is what it says, and troops should follow it, but I do not like it. It is just as bad as requiring 75, 80 or some other percent participation.

Thats my opinion & I am sticking to it.
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Postby milominderbinder2 » Sun May 18, 2008 8:21 pm

The Boy Scouts require 100%.

You are either active (registered) or you are not.

If the Scout is not active, you have a legal obligation to remove him from the roster.

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Postby FrankJ » Sun May 18, 2008 8:32 pm

If the Scout is not active, you have a legal obligation to remove him from the roster.


Is that a federal or state law? :?
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Postby evmori » Mon May 19, 2008 6:25 am

Sure a Scout must be registered to be active, but JUST being registered doesn't make a Scout active. I don't have my BSA literature with me but in either the Boy Scout Handbook or the SM Handbook or both there is a better definition of active.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon May 19, 2008 6:31 am

Ed you are wrong according to BSA.
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Postby evmori » Mon May 19, 2008 9:32 am

Not completely Jerry.
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Postby OldGreyBear » Mon May 19, 2008 11:46 am

from the BSA website

Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined?


Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if:

He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current).
He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.
He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on).

The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position.

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/Guide ... ceFAQ.aspx


therefore, registered = active



I have had scout leaders say that since the above is not in the Scoutmaster's handbook or the scout handbook, then they dont have to folloe it. Oddly enough, the same adults aften appoint SPL's and PL's as the youth are not really ready for selecting leadership

Perhaps it would be better to say that there is a "moral" obligation to remove a scout who doesnt attend meetings or outings. Of course, this means you have communicated with them and know why they dont attend.
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Postby Fibonacci » Tue May 20, 2008 6:48 pm

A Scout asked me this exact question at the meeting last night. He'll be away for many weeks this summer and was concerned that his leadership position (Librarian) wouldn't count while he was away. He's an enthusiastic 7th grader working toward Life. I was happy to tell him that he will be considered active all summer long. He is already working on updating the troop library to include the newest mb pamphlets for the merit badge classes Scouts will be taking at Summer Camp in late July. This kid is great!

So thank you for sharing this information.
registered = active
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Postby Scout » Tue May 20, 2008 6:57 pm

OK... if we have an obligation to remove a scout from the role if he is not participating, could some explain how to make that happen? In tens years of troop leadership and 15 more at the district and council levels in 5 different councils, I have yet to see any youth reported as not participating.

I look at the whole situation - I have had scouts that made one or two troop meeting a month and seldom a campout but were quick to return calls, ask for help, and talk to me that I considered active while other with similar attendance but not communicating and seeking help were called inactive. The big difference is communication and reasoning
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Postby FrankJ » Tue May 20, 2008 8:32 pm

You make make it happen by not rechartering them. :cry: I do not think any body is seriously suggesting not rechartering a scout who want to be there.
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Postby Scout » Tue May 20, 2008 11:42 pm

OldGreyBear and milominderbinder2 both seem to imply that there is some way before re-charter to drop scout that are not active. To me, the determination of active is pretty situational and subjective.
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Postby Mrw » Wed May 21, 2008 6:52 am

If they do not pay at re-charter time, we drop them. Other than that, I don't know that there is a way to drop them from your official roster unless they transfer to another unit.
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Postby OldGreyBear » Wed May 21, 2008 8:06 am

It may be early so I am not sure I am awake, but how/where did I imply there was a way to drop a scout before recharter? I certainly didnt mean to imply that and if you took it that way, please let me know how as I dont want to have a repeat of that in the future.

How many times have we heard a poster say that a scout who hadnt been active in 3 years 2 years or some other time frame longer than 12 months (a year) who comes back to make Eagle. If they havent been active in 3 years, why are they still registered? That is what I am saying, you have had at least 2 opportunities to drop them.

Now, what I am saying is that if you have a scout in a POR, take anyone, but I will use Quartermaster. He is absent from many events, is not around to pack up or oversee the return of the equipment and generally doesnt indicate he cares. How long do you allow this behavior? After all. you gave him his postion description and laid out your expectations when he took office. After a month you confer with him, tell his what he has done well and what needs to improve. if his pattern of non-involvement contiues, around the 4 month mark you give him a list of goals to reach or his time is office will not count. At the five month mark you review the list and if you dont see anything that gives you hope, remove him from the position. its not fair to the PAtrol Leader or SPL who gives his best to allow a slacker to prosper.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 21, 2008 8:20 am

Scouts are not dropped as it hurst the unit in their quest for Quality Unit. It s better(in their eyes) to keep the scout on the books then to drop the numbers in the troop. Many troops just automaticially pay a kids fees year to year. Maybe the answer is to make the scout pay his fee each year before recharter time. I dropped scouts each year and was actually told about it by a DE because their numbers went down.
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Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 21, 2008 8:28 am

In oldgreybear's example, you have to be on top of watching your calendar. If the scout is in the POR for the requisite amount of time (4 or 6 months) and you don't remove him, he gets the rank requirement signed off. If he serves 3 of 4 months satisfactorily and is allowed to shift to another POR for a month, he can also get it signed off.

STAR REQ #5: "While a First Class Scout, serve actively 4 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop):" Bold added by me.

The key is communication and setting expectations. Also making sure the SPL understands who he is appointing to his staff positions and have him demand performance works for us. "If your going to be my QM, I expect to see you on the events".

Active is what it is and no leader likes it. I've never had anyone push the issue as generally they are in or out. Parents don't pay to register their sons if they aren't going to participate. How many of you see scouts coming back from "the dead" after 2-3 years? The only ones I see are those military kids who went overseas with their families where there wasn't an active program.
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Postby evmori » Wed May 21, 2008 10:20 am

smtroop168 wrote:In oldgreybear's example, you have to be on top of watching your calendar. If the scout is in the POR for the requisite amount of time (4 or 6 months) and you don't remove him, he gets the rank requirement signed off. If he serves 3 of 4 months satisfactorily and is allowed to shift to another POR for a month, he can also get it signed off.

STAR REQ #5: "While a First Class Scout, serve actively 4 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop):" Bold added by me.

The key is communication and setting expectations. Also making sure the SPL understands who he is appointing to his staff positions and have him demand performance works for us. "If your going to be my QM, I expect to see you on the events".

Active is what it is and no leader likes it. I've never had anyone push the issue as generally they are in or out. Parents don't pay to register their sons if they aren't going to participate. How many of you see scouts coming back from "the dead" after 2-3 years? The only ones I see are those military kids who went overseas with their families where there wasn't an active program.


Why does he have to be removed for it not to count? What if he does a lousy job & is left in the position? Just because he "put in his time" he gets passed?
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Postby OldGreyBear » Wed May 21, 2008 10:48 am

Because being in a Scouting POR is not like being a civil servant, there are consequences for actions, or inaction as the case may be. I think Ed, you are a big proponent of teaching scouts that actions have consequences, if a scout is not doing is job, why not remove him?

Forget about the time in the POR, forget about whether or not he gets credit, what does a scout learn who is in a POR for 4 months, and does nothing? What is he learning? If expectations are not met, why not remove him then?
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Postby evmori » Wed May 21, 2008 11:12 am

OldGreyBear wrote:Because being in a Scouting POR is not like being a civil servant, there are consequences for actions, or inaction as the case may be. I think Ed, you are a big proponent of teaching scouts that actions have consequences, if a scout is not doing is job, why not remove him?

Forget about the time in the POR, forget about whether or not he gets credit, what does a scout learn who is in a POR for 4 months, and does nothing? What is he learning? If expectations are not met, why not remove him then?


Yup I am a big proponent that! And leaving a Scout in a POR that he is not doing well can be a great learning experience. Removing him makes it final & the chance for teaching is reduced. And the consequences for doing the job poorly is ya don't get to advance.
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Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 21, 2008 11:36 am

It counts because unfortunately it counts as far as meeting the requirement. And double unfortunately, it doesn't say you have to do it well. Gets back to the "active" discussion.

The positions like historian, bugler and librarian are the ones that drive me crazy as far as PORs counting for S/L/E. I'd rather them add Asst PL since most of them have to fill in for the PL sometimes and display more leadership than the above mentioned.

To answer oldgreybear...they learn that they don't have to do their best to succeed.

OGB...Don't you like civil servants? :lol:
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