Community Service Hours "Double Dip"?

Scout Badge, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle Palms.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

Postby Lynda J » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:30 am

I was wondering the same thing. We never fall short on service hours. One boy has logged over 40 hrs since school started. He works through a program at his church. He works their food bank each month and then his family visits shut-in's almost every Sunday. If a boy is active in his church and community there should be no need to double dip. on service hours. Once a month we do a cleanup at our CHO property. It gives each boy there about 1.5-2 hrs. Go by and pick up trash at the soccer field. Stop by a nursing home and read. One thing my brother loved when he was in the nursing home before his death there was a group of Scouts that came by once a month and just visited. They would spend about 2 hrs. When my brother passed away I got a card from the troop. Since my brother was an Eagle Scout he truly enjoyed their visits.
Another benifit is that boys learn that just because someone is in a nursing home doesn't mean they are old. George was 51 when he died and had been in there for 5 years. There are about 12 residents that are under 50. You wouldn't believe how many people in nursing homes never have a single visitor. George's roommate had family that lives within an hours drive. In the 4 years they shared a room they never visited once. It was their grandfather.
I can understand the double coverage on Swimming and Rank. But giving back to your community isn't that hard.
Like my very wise Gran use to say "Your community is like a tree. You are either a leaf that feeds and nutures is or mistletoe that sucks it dry. Be sure you are always a leaf" Community service is teaching our boys to be that leaf.
your community is a tree. You are either a leaf that feeds it or mistletoe that suckes it dry. Be sure you are always a leaf.
Lynda J
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:58 am
Location: Longhorn Council, TX

Postby mhjacobson » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:30 pm

And scouts have school, the troop, and homework, as well as possible ahtletic, etc. activities. There is no guidline issued by BSA that does not allow double dipping of activities for advancement and merit badges. And to say so might be a violation of the 'nothing less, nothing more' policy of BSA.

I agree tha it is relatively easy to do community service. And the merit badges even tell what kind of community service must be accomplished for the badge.

What should be more of an issue is the individual scout. The SM and the BOR have to make the determination of whether or not the scout has lived up to the spirit of the requirement.
50 year+ scouter -- have held almost all adult leader positions in Cubs, Scouts, & Venturing, currently serving as Council Scouting for Youth with Disabilities Chair.
mhjacobson
Eagle
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:39 pm
Location: DesPlaines Valley Council - Illinois

Postby John F. » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:16 pm

Double dipping should be allowed for the right reason. Volunteering time for your community or church. The only time it shouldn't be allowed is when a scout is ordered by a judge to do community service. And yes, sometimes a scout does get into trouble with the law.
John Furlong
Asst. Scout Master

Alice: "How long is forever?"
White Rabbit: "Sometimes just a second."
John F.
Star
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:07 pm
Location: Baden-Powell

Postby WeeWillie » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:49 pm

John

There is never a right reason to double dip. If National intended for CITC MB to double dip with Star/Life they would have made CITC MB 2 hours. They didn't. Swimming has 2nd & 1st Class specifically written into the merit badge requirement. If a Scout can't pass the 2nd & 1st Class requirement, they don't move on.

The reason why we have double, triple, quadruple (and what ever 5 and 6 are) dipping is to allow Scouts to advance with as little time and effort as possible. It is most often found in troops running merit badge mills.

We are suposed to be teaching our Scouts lifetime values. Do we really want to be teaching our Scouts that community service is something to avoid whenever possible. How many hours are you putting into Scouting in six months? Why shouldn't you be expecting your Scouts to put in 14?
Mike Wilson
MBC, Cochise District, Catalina Council, Sierra Vista, AZ
WeeWillie
Eagle
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:40 pm
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ

Postby scoutaholic » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:51 am

WeeWillie wrote:...There is never a right reason to double dip. If National intended for CITC MB to double dip with Star/Life they would have made CITC MB 2 hours. They didn't. ...


Your logic here also works the other way. If National intended that the hours for CITC could not be counted for Star/Life, they would have specified so. Just like in Hiking MB, it specifically says that the hikes for requirement 5 and 6 cannot count for other MBs but can count for Second Class (2a) and First Class (3).

WeeWillie wrote:We are suposed to be teaching our Scouts lifetime values. Do we really want to be teaching our Scouts that community service is something to avoid whenever possible. How many hours are you putting into Scouting in six months? Why shouldn't you be expecting your Scouts to put in 14?


CITC MB requirements wrote:7a. Choose a charitable organization outside of Scouting that interests you and brings people in your community together to work for the good of the community.
7c. With your counselor's and your parent's approval, contact the organization and find out what your people can do to help. While working on this merit badge, volunteer at least eight hours of your time for the organization. ...


The CITC requirement is very specific ... choose an organization that fits this criteria, contact them, ask what you can do, do at least eight hours.
This is not your every day service project. This is a scout taking the initiative to plan/organize, and then spending at least 8 hours of their time. This sounds more like an Eagle project than hours for Star/Life. If the boy does the paperwork to get it pre-approved, there is no reason it couldn't be used as the Eagle project. If the boy goes through the effort to do the CITC service as it is written in the requirement, I'm not going to tell him that he can't advance until his does more. Recognize the boy for what he has done - don't make the service a drudgery.
There are plenty of service opportunities, and most active scouts are going to have done plenty of hours besides the specific ones for this requirement. If the only hours they did are the 8 for this requirement, then they have still done 8 hours, which is more than the hours required for Star/Life.
Eagle Scout 1987
OA Vigil Honor 1986
Woodbadge Fox - WE7-590-05-2
Currently - COR & Dist Webmaster
Previously - SM, MC, CM, ACM, ADL, ASM, Dist Camp Chair, PL, SPL, Scribe, Songleader, JASM, OA Chapter Officer 5-years-running, ...
scoutaholic
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:56 am
Location: Great Salt Lake Council - Utah

Postby mom4-2eaglescouts » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:25 pm

The "eight hours of your time for the organization" for CIT-C enables the scout to get a more in-depth view of the organization in the community he is volunteering for. Eight hours of his time give him plenty of experience to see more than one facet of the organization's mission. He has enough time with the folks working in the organization and a feel for the many aspects of the mission. Because he will have this time, he will also see some of the administrative side not readily seen by the casual visitor. This may excite, bore, inspire, disgust, whatever. That is what makes these particular service hours different from that required by the ranks.

For the Star or Life rank, you take part in "service projects" totaling "six hours of work". To me, that type of time sounds different than the type in the merit badge. It sounds like the kinds of projects for participation in troop eagle projects, troop good turns, etc. and the projects must be approved by the Scoutmaster for the hours of work to count for rank.
"This was a good country in the past. It is a good country today. It will be a good country tomorrow unless we fail it." – Daniel Carter Beard
mom4-2eaglescouts
Second Class
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:59 am
Location: East Coast

Postby mhjacobson » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:03 pm

In many cases the MB counselor is not a part of the troop and does not even know if the scout is double dipping or not. All that the counselor has to go on is the following:
1) the signature of the SM on the card which is supposed to mean that the SM approves of the scout going for the MB
2) whatever documentation that the scout brings with him to the MB counselor
3) what information the scout presents to the MB counselor during the MB session
50 year+ scouter -- have held almost all adult leader positions in Cubs, Scouts, & Venturing, currently serving as Council Scouting for Youth with Disabilities Chair.
mhjacobson
Eagle
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:39 pm
Location: DesPlaines Valley Council - Illinois

Next

Return to Scout Badge, Tenderfoot through Life, and Eagle Palms

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 0 guests