Before 18th Birthday...

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Before 18th Birthday...

Postby t305spl » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:15 pm

Have spoken to a few different people and I am unsure what Nationals exact requirements are...

What actually needs to be completed before the scouts 18th Birthday?

Do they need to have the project Final Write-Up completed and submitted or just be done with the project?

Does the Eagle Scout App. need to be submitted?

Just for clarification...what actually needs to be done and in before the scouts 18th Birthday?

Thanks!
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:29 pm

yes the application must be completed by the 18th birthday and at the service center. The BOR may be after the BD
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Postby t305spl » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:45 pm

Ok...

I recently heard that as long as every requirement in the book was complete you had 3 months to submit your application and final write up for your project.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:46 pm

t305spl wrote:Ok...

I recently heard that as long as every requirement in the book was complete you had 3 months to submit your application and final write up for your project.


Application msut be submitted before the 18th Bday, then you have 3 months for your EBOR.
Good luck.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:50 pm

Why did you wait?
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:54 pm

I know of one troop that has a 30 day rule. They tell the boy that everything muist be done at least before the boys 18th birthday. If not then it is up to the boy and his family to get everythiung submitted to the service center. The leadership will sign everything BUT they will not take it to the service center.We hand deliver them in this council.
Now I realize this is not the thing to do so do not jump on me.
But again are they violating any rules?/Policies?
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Postby pipestone1991 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:04 pm

wagionvigil wrote:I know of one troop that has a 30 day rule. They tell the boy that everything muist be done at least before the boys 18th birthday. If not then it is up to the boy and his family to get everythiung submitted to the service center. The leadership will sign everything BUT they will not take it to the service center.We hand deliver them in this council.
Now I realize this is not the thing to do so do not jump on me.
But again are they violating any rules?/Policies?



I don't know. I was certified an Eagle at 16 and never understood about the procrastination. None the less, t305, you must hurry. I have know scouts who have set everything to to finish before their 18th and have failed to reach the summit.
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Postby scoutaholic » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:55 pm

The Birthday deadline is interpretted differently by different people and in different councils. I've heard some some it must be done BEFORE the birthday. Others so ON the birthday is OK. Others say everything done by the birthday and you have some time afterwards to finish the paperwork.

I'll tell you what my experiences in my area have been. You will need to clarify exactly what the rules are in your council.

In our coucil, all work must be completed by your birthday (midnight). The eagle application and project booklet can be filled out and turned in within a reasonable time after that (about 3 months). I had a boy several years ago stretch that 'reasonable time' out to six months. He was hard pressed to explain the delay, and almost didn't get the Eagle he had earned.

The BOR takes place about a month after the paperwork is received at the council office. The BOR date becomes your official Eagle date, but you still have to wait for the final paperwork to come back from national before you can buy the award kit and have a COH.
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Postby PaulSWolf » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:25 pm

wagionvigil wrote:yes the application must be completed by the 18th birthday and at the service center. The BOR may be after the BD

Not true. So long as all WORK on the project and other requirements are done by the 18th birthday, the workbook and application CAN be completed after that date. Here's what I've written at http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank7app.asp, and have verified with the national Director of Boy Scout Advancement:

NOTE: The Application Form and the Service Project Workbook do NOT have to be completed and/or signed prior to the candidate's 18th birthday, only the REQUIREMENTS need to be done. The top of the application form contains the following statement:

"This application is to be completed after you have completed all requirements for the Eagle Scout rank....When you have completed this application, sign it and submit it to your unit leader"

By the Scout's signature, it says:

"On my honor as a Scout/Venturer, all statements on this application are true and correct. All requirements were completed prior to my 18th birthday."

In "The 12 Steps from Life to Eagle" on the last page of the workbook, it says:

"3. It is imperative that all requirements for the Eagle Scout rank be completed prior to the candidate's 18th birthday. When all requirements except the board of review for the rank of Eagle, including the leadership service project, have been completed, the enclosed Eagle Scout Rank Application must be completed and sent to the council service center promptly."

Everything says REQUIREMENTS must be completed before the deadline, and the application be completed and submitted AFTER the requirements are complete.

The unit leader DOES have to sign and date the application, and the project workbook, but that date does NOT have to be before the deadline, so long as all the dates listing when the requirements were completed is listed. The date that the Unit Leader's Conference was held is a separate entry from the leader's signature date. The signature dates in the workbook are separate from the entry for the date the project was completed.
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Postby PaulSWolf » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:30 pm

As for the 3 month - 6 month issue, that is explained very precisely in a number of places, including on the application:

Scouts and Venturers who have completed all requirements prior to their 18th birthday may be reviewed within three months after that date with no explanation.

Boards of review conducted between three and six months after the candidate's 18th birthday must be preapproved by the local council. A statement by an adult explaining the reason for the delay must be attached to the Eagle Scout Rank Application when it is submitted to the Eagle Scout Service.

The Boy Scout Division at the national office must be contacted for procedures to follow if a board of review is to be conducted more than six months after a candidate's 18th birthday.
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Postby WeeWillie » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:47 pm

Wagionvigil

I live 90 miles from council. Other troops in my district are 150 miles from council. One of my co-workers is a council commissioner and he delivers/picks up paperwork from council the 3rd Wednesday of the month. If a Scout wants me to sign off on his Eagle Application and see it is delivered to council, he better get it in to me by the 3rd Tuesday of the month. After that, I will sign the Application, but it is his responsibility to get it to council. I am not adding a requirement because I am signing the the application within the application period. I am simply not being the mail man or FEDEX.
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Postby smtroop168 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:00 am

Paul..great info. I tell my guys that their Leadership Project is not complete until their workbook is complete since it needs the sponsor's signature and the SMs and it needs to be done before 18. It's really not that hard to fill out their books after they have completed their project. I also can have their SM Conference when I sign their project books.

Also I give them an Eagle Application and a print out from Troopmaster so they can start filling in the info so we're not scrambling around looking for stuff. I tell them to make TM with their records to make sure they match up.

My advice is to grab the scout on their 17th birthday and go into detail on what is needed. I got a document off the web called the 1032 steps from Life to Eagle that I give them to work through the process.

Finally, even the Professional Scouters can misinterpret the 18 age rules. I had one tell me that the scout could have his SM conference after he turned 18.
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Postby Chief J » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:01 am

Lot of good comments on this thread, several others have hit the nail on the head, all requirements must be complete and the application submitted before the 18th birthday. BOR can be 3 months after (or 6 months if warrented).

As far how to submit the application to the Council Service Center, I am not aware of any stated guidelines or policies from National.

In my troop, the last requirement to be completed to submit the application is the SM conference. Following that everything is returned to the Scout / parent and it is up to them to deliver it to the councile service center. Our Service center has a pretty thorough process fro recording the delivery, acceptance, etc. of the application. As a former SM and current Advancement Chair for the Troop. I put the responsibility on the Scout and his parents for delivery.

Regards,
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Postby PaulSWolf » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:14 am

Chief J wrote:Lot of good comments on this thread, several others have hit the nail on the head, all requirements must be complete and the application submitted before the 18th birthday.

No Chief,

The application does NOT have to be submitted before the 18th birthday.

Requirements 1-6, as listed in Boy Scout Requirements, must be done by before the 18th birthday. The paperwork (and, of course, Requirement 7 - the Eagle Board of Review) can be done AFTER that date.

SHOULD everything be done in advance of that date - MOST DEFINITELY.
MUST everything be done in advance of that date - NO.
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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:29 am

Regardless of what It says My council requires that it be there. We have discussed this at meeting But the advancement committee seems to have a problem with changing their proceedures.
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Postby smtroop168 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:39 am

Thanks again. I guess it's another case of interpretation of a completed project and the definition of "work". If it the physical on site work or the work required to complete the book.

Is the campfire out when you first throw water on it on is it out after you stir around the coals and rewater?

I quote the Remember the Titans when the coach said "leave no doubt" and get it all done before 18.
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Postby PaulSWolf » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:25 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Regardless of what It says My council requires that it be there. We have discussed this at meeting But the advancement committee seems to have a problem with changing their procedures.

Then you need a new advancement committee that will abide by BSA's rules.

What happens if a Scout tries to turn in an application to your council office after his 18th birthday?

If the council accepts it, then the advancement committee must hold the BoR.

If the council does not accept it, then the Scout should appeal, and the council will be forced to accept it and the advancement committee will be told to hold the BoR.

In either case, once the council accepts the application, if the advancement committee won't hold the BOR, the Scout can appeal, and National will direct them to hold the BOR.

If they hold it, and turn the Scout down based on what they have determined is a late submission, the Scout can appeal, and the BoR decision will be overturned.

Bottom line is, the advancement committee is wrong, and the SE should get them in line or replace them.
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Postby Mrw » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:33 pm

We have always told our boys the paperwork and SMC needed to be completed by their 18th birthday and that the packet should be turned in on or before their birthday to Council.

It is a clear deadline and there is no opening for interpretation. As far as i know we haven't had anyone ask for any way around that. We did though have a boy several years ago work like heck the last month to get a project done and get things turned in on time. He made it, but had really left things too long before getting serious about finishing.
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Postby PaulSWolf » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:14 pm

Mrw wrote:We have always told our boys the paperwork and SMC needed to be completed by their 18th birthday and that the packet should be turned in on or before their birthday to Council.

It is a clear deadline and there is no opening for interpretation. As far as i know we haven't had anyone ask for any way around that. We did though have a boy several years ago work like heck the last month to get a project done and get things turned in on time. He made it, but had really left things too long before getting serious about finishing.

Sure, that's the best way. I'm not denying that.

But when I was SM, I had a boy that finished his last 3 merit badges the evening before his birthday, and had finished his project the week before, as I recall. He came to my house at about 10:00 pm for his SMC. He completed the paperwork (application and workbook) the following week, and we turned them in about a week later. The date of the SMC, the project completion date, and the dates for all merit badges were before his birthday. The dates by the signatures of the SM, CC, and Project recipient were all after that date.

No problem was ever raised by GCC or the national office, since all work on requirements was done before he turned 18.
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Postby smtroop168 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:00 pm

While we're discussing this, Requirement 6 says:


Take part in a Scoutmaster conference (with Scoutmaster, Coach, or Advisor). Attach to this application a statement of your ambitions and life purpose and a listing of positions held in your religious institution, school, camp, community, or other organizations during which you demonstrated leadership skills. Include honors and awards received during this service.

Reading this, the scout's statement should be forwarded to National as well since they are the final authority that the application is submitted. I don't think we do this in our council but I've never heard of a kickback either.

Would like to see RWSmith's take on all this since he wrote the guide we all use and is the "unofficial GURU" on how this all works.
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